Primera División (2013/2014)
domingo, 03 noviembre 2013@20:30
Jornada 12
Jornada 12
1er tiempo
45'
45'
45'
45'
45'
2do tiempo
68'
68'
76'
85'
86'
88'
89'
89'
Árbitros del partido
Árbitro
Asistente 1
Asistente 2
Cuarto árbitro
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![J. Toyo Javier Eduardo Toyo Bárcenas](https://images.fastscore.com/players/50x50/javier-eduardo-toyo-barcenas.png)
J. Toyo
Guardameta
Guardameta
![D. Menghi Diego Sebastián Menghi](https://images.fastscore.com/players/50x50/diego-sebastian-menghi.png)
D. Menghi
Defensa
Defensa
![G. Romero Giovanny Michael Romero Armenio](https://images.fastscore.com/players/50x50/giovanny-michael-romero-armenio.png)
G. Romero
Defensa
Defensa
![D. McIntosh David Andrew McIntosh Parra](https://images.fastscore.com/players/50x50/david-andrew-mcintosh-parra.png)
D. McIntosh
Defensa
Defensa
![J. González Javier Alejandro González Tupper](https://images.fastscore.com/players/50x50/javier-alejandro-gonzalez-tupper.png)
J. González
Defensa
Defensa
![J. González Jhonny Alberto González Benavente](https://images.fastscore.com/players/50x50/jhonny-alberto-gonzalez-benavente.png)
J. González
Defensa
Defensa
![H. González Héctor Augusto González Guzmán](https://images.fastscore.com/players/50x50/hector-augusto-gonzalez-guzman.png)
H. González
Centrocampista
Centrocampista
![Diego Valdés Diego Fernando Valdés Parra](https://images.fastscore.com/players/50x50/diego-fernando-valdes-parra.png)
Diego Valdés
Centrocampista
Centrocampista
![Héctor Pérez Ramírez Héctor Enrique Pérez Ramírez](https://images.fastscore.com/players/50x50/hector-enrique-perez-ramirez.png)
Héctor Pérez Ramírez
Centrocampista
Centrocampista
![R. Arocha Rubén Darío Arocha Hernández](https://images.fastscore.com/players/50x50/ruben-dario-arocha-hernandez.png)
R. Arocha
Centrocampista
Centrocampista
![A. Uribe Anthony Chelín Uribe Francia](https://images.fastscore.com/players/50x50/anthony-chelin-uribe-francia.png)
A. Uribe
Delantero
Delantero
Entrenador:
J. Hernández
Suplentes
![J. Casanova Jorge Francisco Casanova Canchila](https://images.fastscore.com/players/50x50/jorge-francisco-casanova-canchila.png)
J. Casanova
Centrocampista
Centrocampista
![C. Cásseres Cristian Alfonso Cásseres Cásseres](https://images.fastscore.com/players/50x50/cristian-alfonso-casseres-casseres.png)
C. Cásseres
Delantero
Delantero
![H. Palomino Hermes Manuel Palomino Fariñez](https://images.fastscore.com/players/50x50/hermes-manuel-palomino-farinez.png)
H. Palomino
Delantero
Delantero
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
![Sin foto del jugador Sin foto del jugador](https://images.fastscore.com/players/empty-photo.png)
L. Curiel
Guardameta
Guardameta
![J. Bustamante Jaime Andrés Bustamante Suárez](https://images.fastscore.com/players/50x50/jaime-andres-bustamante-suarez.jpg)
J. Bustamante
Defensa
Defensa
![Sin foto del jugador Sin foto del jugador](https://images.fastscore.com/players/empty-photo.png)
Á. Faría
Defensa
Defensa
![R. Briceño Rohel Antonio Briceño Carpio](https://images.fastscore.com/players/50x50/rohel-antonio-briceno-carpio.jpg)
R. Briceño
Defensa
Defensa
![Sin foto del jugador Sin foto del jugador](https://images.fastscore.com/players/empty-photo.png)
W. Díaz
Defensa
Defensa
![Sin foto del jugador Sin foto del jugador](https://images.fastscore.com/players/empty-photo.png)
J. Rojas
Centrocampista
Centrocampista
![O. Peraza Orlando José Peraza Vanegas](https://images.fastscore.com/players/50x50/orlando-jose-peraza-vanegas.png)
O. Peraza
Centrocampista
Centrocampista
![Sin foto del jugador Sin foto del jugador](https://images.fastscore.com/players/empty-photo.png)
P. Valdés
Centrocampista
Centrocampista
![Sin foto del jugador Sin foto del jugador](https://images.fastscore.com/players/empty-photo.png)
J. Lugo
Delantero
Delantero
![Sin foto del jugador Sin foto del jugador](https://images.fastscore.com/players/empty-photo.png)
R. Pérez
Delantero
Delantero
![A. Rondón Alexander José Rondón Heredia](https://images.fastscore.com/players/50x50/alexander-jose-rondon-heredia.jpg)
A. Rondón
Entrenador
Entrenador
Entrenador:
R. Cavalleri
Suplentes
![Sin foto del jugador Sin foto del jugador](https://images.fastscore.com/players/empty-photo.png)
L. Uzcátegui
Defensa
Defensa
![M. Aguirre Marcos Sebastián Aguirre](https://images.fastscore.com/players/50x50/marcos-sebastian-aguirre.jpg)
M. Aguirre
Centrocampista
Centrocampista
![Sin foto del jugador Sin foto del jugador](https://images.fastscore.com/players/empty-photo.png)
N. Bareiro
Delantero
Delantero
89'
Hay una sustitución. J. Casanova (Atlético Venezuela) será de la partida, en sustitución de G. Romero.
89'
GOOOOOOL!!! H. Palomino anotó para Atlético Venezuela.
88'
R. Cavalleri (Aragua) ha decidido hacer una sustitución, L. Uzcátegui ha sustituido a A. Rondón.
86'
GOOOOOOL!!! Aragua marca con P. Valdés.
85'
J. Hernández (Atlético Venezuela) ha decidido hacer una sustitución, H. Palomino ha reemplazado a Héctor Pérez Ramírez.
76'
Hay una sustitución. C. Cásseres (Atlético Venezuela) será de la partida, en sustitución de A. Uribe.
68'
R. Cavalleri (Aragua) ha decidido hacer una sustitución, M. Aguirre ha sustituido a J. Lugo.
68'
El árbitro A. Cabello autoriza una sustitución y N. Bareiro (Aragua) reemplazará a R. Pérez.
45'
D. Menghi (Atlético Venezuela) ha recibido una tarjeta amarilla del árbitro. Deberá tener mucho cuidado durante el resto del partido.
45'
El árbitro A. Cabello muestra una tarjeta amarilla a Héctor Pérez Ramírez (Atlético Venezuela).
45'
A. Cabello considera que J. Bustamante (Aragua) merece una tarjeta amarilla.
45'
W. Díaz (Aragua) es amonestado por el árbitro A. Cabello.
45'
A. Rondón (Aragua) ve la tarjeta amarilla del árbitro A. Cabello.
45'
El árbitro A. Cabello muestra una tarjeta amarilla a M. Aguirre (Aragua).
Enfrentamientos
11.09.19
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
1
1
FIN
20.03.19
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
0
3
FIN
03.10.18
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
1
2
FIN
09.09.18
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
2
0
FIN
18.08.18
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
2
0
FIN
24.02.18
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
0
4
FIN
07.10.17
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
1
2
FIN
30.04.17
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
1
0
FIN
06.08.16
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
1
2
FIN
05.03.16
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
3
3
FIN
25.10.15
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
1
2
FIN
19.04.15
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
0
2
FIN
30.11.14
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
0
2
FIN
21.05.14
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
1
1
FIN
17.05.14
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
1
0
FIN
* Últimos 15 partidos (si están disponibles) entre ambos.
Enfrentamientos (con Atlético Venezuela como local)
11.09.19
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
1
1
FIN
03.10.18
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
1
2
FIN
24.02.18
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
0
4
FIN
30.04.17
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
1
0
FIN
06.08.16
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
1
2
FIN
25.10.15
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
1
2
FIN
30.11.14
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
0
2
FIN
21.05.14
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
1
1
FIN
03.11.13
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
1
1
FIN
30.09.12
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
1
1
FIN
03.04.11
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
0
1
FIN
06.09.09
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
3
2
FIN
* Últimos 15 partidos (si están disponibles) entre ambos con Atlético Venezuela como local.
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
General
Local
Visitante
Partidos jugados
22
12 (54.55%)
10 (45.45%)
Ganados
6
2 (33.33%)
4 (66.67%)
Empates
7
4 (57.14%)
3 (42.86%)
Perdidos
9
6 (66.67%)
3 (33.33%)
Goles a favor
24
11 (45.83%)
13 (54.17%)
Goles en contra
30
19 (63.33%)
11 (36.67%)
* Estadísticas de todos los partidos disputados entre ambos, bajo la perspectiva de Atlético Venezuela
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
General
Local
Visitante
Partidos jugados
22
10 (45.45%)
12 (54.55%)
Ganados
9
3 (33.33%)
6 (66.67%)
Empates
7
3 (42.86%)
4 (57.14%)
Perdidos
6
4 (66.67%)
2 (33.33%)
Goles a favor
30
11 (36.67%)
19 (63.33%)
Goles en contra
24
13 (54.17%)
11 (45.83%)
* Estadísticas de todos los partidos disputados entre ambos, bajo la perspectiva de Aragua
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
General
21.10.21
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Monagas Monagas](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/monagas.png)
2
4
FIN
14.10.21
![Caracas Caracas](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/caracas.png)
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
0
3
FIN
01.10.21
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![LALA LALA](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/lala.png)
3
1
FIN
24.09.21
![UCV UCV](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/ucv-3.png)
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
4
0
FIN
17.09.21
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Mineros de Guayana Mineros de Guayana](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/mineros-de-guayana.png)
2
1
FIN
12.09.21
![Metropolitanos Metropolitanos](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/metropolitanos.png)
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
2
1
FIN
05.09.21
![Monagas Monagas](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/monagas.png)
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
1
1
FIN
28.08.21
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Caracas Caracas](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/caracas.png)
0
2
FIN
15.08.21
![LALA LALA](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/lala.png)
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
1
1
FIN
06.08.21
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![UCV UCV](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/ucv-3.png)
1
0
FIN
Local
21.10.21
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Monagas Monagas](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/monagas.png)
2
4
FIN
01.10.21
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![LALA LALA](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/lala.png)
3
1
FIN
17.09.21
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Mineros de Guayana Mineros de Guayana](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/mineros-de-guayana.png)
2
1
FIN
28.08.21
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Caracas Caracas](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/caracas.png)
0
2
FIN
06.08.21
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![UCV UCV](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/ucv-3.png)
1
0
FIN
23.07.21
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Metropolitanos Metropolitanos](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/metropolitanos.png)
4
1
FIN
17.07.21
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Monagas Monagas](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/monagas.png)
1
2
FIN
26.06.21
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![LALA LALA](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/lala.png)
4
2
FIN
11.06.21
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Mineros de Guayana Mineros de Guayana](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/mineros-de-guayana.png)
1
0
FIN
20.05.21
![Atlético Venezuela Atlético Venezuela](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-venezuela.png)
![Caracas Caracas](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/caracas.png)
0
4
FIN
* Los últimos 10 partidos de Atlético Venezuela en general y como local.
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
General
13.06.24
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
![Sin logo Sin logo](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/empty-logo.png)
0
0
FIN
09.06.24
![Trujillanos Trujillanos](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/trujillanos.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
1
1
FIN
06.06.24
![Deportivo La Guaira Deportivo La Guaira](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/deportivo-la-guaira.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
3
0
FIN
01.06.24
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
![Atlético El Vigía Atlético El Vigía](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-el-vigia.png)
2
0
FIN
25.05.24
![Real Frontera Real Frontera](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/real-frontera.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
1
3
FIN
19.05.24
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
![Sin logo Sin logo](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/empty-logo.png)
1
0
FIN
12.05.24
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
![Sin logo Sin logo](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/empty-logo.png)
2
1
FIN
04.05.24
![Yaracuyanos Yaracuyanos](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/yaracuyanos.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
2
2
FIN
28.04.24
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
![Ureña Ureña](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/urena.png)
3
1
FIN
21.04.24
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
![Trujillanos Trujillanos](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/trujillanos.png)
0
0
FIN
Visitante
09.06.24
![Trujillanos Trujillanos](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/trujillanos.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
1
1
FIN
06.06.24
![Deportivo La Guaira Deportivo La Guaira](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/deportivo-la-guaira.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
3
0
FIN
25.05.24
![Real Frontera Real Frontera](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/real-frontera.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
1
3
FIN
04.05.24
![Yaracuyanos Yaracuyanos](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/yaracuyanos.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
2
2
FIN
14.04.24
![Atlético El Vigía Atlético El Vigía](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/atletico-el-vigia.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
2
2
FIN
31.03.24
![Sin logo Sin logo](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/empty-logo.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
0
0
FIN
23.03.24
![Sin logo Sin logo](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/empty-logo.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
2
1
FIN
14.09.22
![Hermanos Colmenárez Hermanos Colmenárez](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/hermanos-colmenares.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
4
1
FIN
04.09.22
![Estudiantes de Mérida Estudiantes de Mérida](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/estudiantes-de-merida.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
2
1
FIN
18.08.22
![Zulia Zulia](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/zulia.png)
![Aragua Aragua](https://images.fastscore.com/teams/25x25/aragua.png)
0
0
FIN
* Los últimos 10 partidos de Aragua en general y como visitante.